Build talk:Team - DoA Frostway
Before Making A build Similar to Glaiveway Post Build Suggestions on there discussion page. This Does Look Great Just 1 thing Why bother take imbagon if Nearly the entire party (except sos) Can take Mantra of frost I know Armor reductions but nearly 50% of the dmg is gone now....--Jpuzimaki13 01:36, July 19, 2010 (UTC) :I did post some suggestion, never got a response. Instead, they posted 10 nearly useless build for Alt classes. Problem with no imba is that he does most of the dmg reduction. 35% from TNTF and i havent done the calc, but 60+100 armor is like 60-70% reduction. ~70-80%. take another 45-50% off that = 85-90% reduction. union adds a bit more but not much. also, no mantra on ST would mean 1-hit death. especially when enraged. would have to be a R/Me. but still.. 85%+ reduction beats the 45%+ you get from mantra alone. Gesun Dheit 02:18, July 19, 2010 (UTC) :Another way to think about it is do you want to take 10% dmg from spikes or 50%? 50% = 5 times as much. thats alot if you think about it that way. Gesun Dheit 04:46, July 19, 2010 (UTC) :: "+100 armor will reduce damage taken by 82.3%." Read the wiki. Its going to vary a little bit if you're dealing with higher AL targets than it was calculated for initially, but the percent will only go down from there. darkoak 14:59, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::: yea. i used to generalize it by saying 60+60 armor will reduce by 50% so i ballparked it, but the formula is actually a bit dif. by my calc would have been 62.5%. but i also use armor mods so itll reduce it a bit. using the wiki figure of 82%, another ~50 from mantra = 91%, another 35% from tntf = 94%, and union 15 damage, it reduces it to almost nothing. 95%-100% reduction anyways. you know, sometimes i dont really care for exact figure. 5% difference to me isnt much, and an approxiamtion is good enough. hehe Gesun Dheit 02:22, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::: You could leave out TNTF on the paragon as it makes a very small difference, only a few percentages, and isn't even maintainable. You could take Brace Yourself!: anti-knockdown protection and armor-ignoring damage on frontliners or Spear of Fury for more adrenaline buffing. Personally I always take Stand Your Ground! for an maintainable extra +24 armor on the paragon. When using Centurions, a +10 vs demons/cold shield, a +7 vs elemental damage spear (or +5 vs all) and cons (+10), the paragon will have 80+10+16+10+7+24+10=157 armor which will make him less of a priority target (normally, a paragon will be targeted most because of his lowest armor when SY) which will relieve some hex pressure and healing-pressure off the monks. And it serves as a backup if SY is down in a pug where hexes arent blind aren't removed fast enough or the imbagon is inexperienced or under the 50% miss chance effect of HM gloom. ::::: I feel that TNTF still helps, even if maybe not too much, but still important in complicated places like with The Fury or in over aggros in city or foundry. Much better than "To the limit" I think it is the "Signet of aggression" which allows to build up adrenaline between fights to yell SY at the very beggining of each fight, also during the fight with one signet activation and two spear throw you get enough adrenaline to spam SY every 4-5 secs, and in my case with a 6 seconds SY it is really easy to maintain it. Leaving the "Lightbringer signet" for cases of energy need like in city or with Mallyx if the door closes.--Kilikan 04:58, August 21, 2010 (UTC) Monks I run HM with this team setup all the time, and I'm glad somebody posted, but I'd like to make 2 suggestions. 1 is that both the monks choose UA, instead of one with HB. then give both monks Arcane Echo to allow them to Echo Seed of Life. This allows both monks to chain 3 seeds of life each, providing massive healing that is almost impossible to spike through. I'd also like to point out that the Panic Mesmer is worth the spot taken. Crowd control becomes very doable, and allows the DwG's time to kill everything without getting nuked themselves :Why cant the monks take mantra then if both can be mesme??-- 16:00, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::A. the reason for hb monk is faster spike heals and faster cast of Heal Party which is required in some cases. B. enchants dont always work. in foundry for example they are quickly removed. selfless spirit for example is a BAD skill to take. any build that depends heavily on enchants won't do well in doa. arcane echo takes 15 energy, which can be a real drag. it is also interruptible, so only really effective at the start of battle (also because of energy cost). it would make more sense to bring AoS. but the problem is elsewhere. there are simply no slots to spare on the monks. they are loaded as is. no room for condition removal. you need 3 hex removals, 2 heals, e-management, heal party, seed, etc.. if you use a skill slot, you either have 1 heal per monk, no hex removal, etc.. won't work. i tried a glyph/seed monk (glyph of renewal), which can chain seed of life indefinately. it just doesn't cut it. Gesun Dheit 02:22, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::i've been looking into the panic mez, but from my experience so far, the run is faster with 4 dwg, as long as the imba and monks don't suck. Gesun Dheit 02:22, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::hmm, also the only real party-wide damage like that occurs in foundry, where seed isnt as effective due to removals. heal party in foundry is usually enough, with some additional heals. also, someone mention Mantra of Frost on monks on the glaiveway thread i think, there just isn't a slot on the monks, unless you can find someother place to slot hex removal, which implies a Panic mez, which really isnt required from my experience, but that remains to be seen. Gesun Dheit 02:51, July 20, 2010 (UTC) Why Deny Hexes on the UA monk? What divine favor skill should be on recharge, there is none on the bar other than UA and I'm sure deny doesn't affect itself. 17:19, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :because with deny, you have the option of removing 1 for 5e, or casting UA and removing 1+1=2 for 10e. convert hexes is a bit too energy intensive, and you need 3 individual hex removals (1 on hb, 2 on ua). honestly? i don't know why i even answer this. i feel.. robbed to put it mildly. Gesun Dheit 00:00, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Panic Can the Panic Mes mer take hex eater signet for party wide hex removal and energy management? Also try and put frustartion on the build can prove useful.--Jpuzimaki13 15:18, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :hex eater is only adjacent. almost never all all the dwgs adjacent. you woul dneed the dwgs to huddle in a cooredinated fashion. just not worth the effort. might as well bring hexbreaker aria on imba. Gesun Dheit 00:00, July 21, 2010 (UTC) :: hex eater os there as additional support Incase of multiple hexes on imbagon or other members two hexes alone wont removal skills from both monks vocal minority stacked at the bottom of two other hexes. the aoe hex removal is just a bonus incase of adjecent allies. Frustration is still very usefull for the panics build.--Jpuzimaki13 01:43, July 21, 2010 (UTC) :::dude, stop trolling. hex eater doesnt remove multiple hexes, it removes 1 hex from multiple allies. so imba would have to huddle with dwgs? i seriously hope not.. Gesun Dheit 21:09, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Winter vs. Rage Titans 1 or 2 Shockwaves or something else and winters die. whit these builds its gonna hard in foundry. :S 14:59, July 21, 2010 (UTC) :winter shouldnt be anywhere near a shockwave. and if it were even 'nearby' 1 hit would do it. keep winter far from battle and dont use 'summon spirits' near the enemy. just keep recasting shelter and union if needed 'within earshot' of the enemy. which is much further than even 'in the area'. itsjust minimally larger than the agro circle. winter doesnt need to be in earshot. just leave it where it is, it can be almost an entire compass away. and do not use summon spirits in battle unless you are a bit away from the enemy. i ST this all the time. usually that's not the problem. it's poor imbas that dont run TTL, LBS, and SOG. they cant maintain adrena especially in city, and sometimes gloom bcs of the 50% chance to fail to hit in HM. and ST has to keep spamming Shelter so when SY goes down, you don ttake more than 10% damage. that is the biggest problem IMHO. instead the imbas bring shit like 'stand your ground' and TOF/BF.. tof/bf are overkill, you don tneed that much reduction. you need adrenaline.. i also ua/hb and dwg this. only char i dont have is an imba and still i think i understand the problem than (from my experience) 98% of paragons. Gesun Dheit 21:09, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Testing Alternate Monk Builds: Testing Optional Panic Support Build: Testing need some ideas for the panic bar. Gesun Dheit 19:36, July 23, 2010 (UTC) shrugs. trying to figure out a way to remove ST from the build. if imba can be kept clean and maintain adrena then ST is pretty much useless. Gesun Dheit 21:27, July 23, 2010 (UTC) greater conflagration and winter? Why don't you use greater conflagration, it would make all damage pretty much into cold damage which would be greatly reduced by mantra of frost? :bcs Soul Twisting is required still, GCONF is an elite.and having 2 spirits that can be killed easily seems like fail to me. Gesun Dheit 16:33, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I find the utility rt could be changed, cause then the SoS could have more points in other things. and you could also place (just suggestions, not working ideas) EOE, GCONF, and winter though the dmg of this utility person would be reduced the overall dmg would go way down. And if your spirits die, then you are fail. Spirits should be placed out of combat and never involved. ::Please sign your comments. Also, there's already a team build that can do DoA that uses Conflag - Blushway. Its interesting, but it works if you've got a buddy with heroes. Like that build, if you used conflag instead of ST you would drop winter entirely and swap all mantras to fire. You'd have to completely redo the ST's slot though, because he's pretty useless without ST as his elite, and it doesn't look like its really worthwhile for this team setup. darkoak 13:55, September 7, 2010 (UTC) sugestion I prefer a panic mesmer over a dwg. It works really well, if your team knows how to ball. And i personaly like taking EoE on the ST. take: / Soul Twisting. (6wildernis, 6 beast, spawning so that ST works for 3 binding rituals, rest comuning). i prefer signet of creation over lightbringer signet so that you can keep your energy up while being far away from anny enemy (but stil have the spirits in effect rang of your team, normaly you sould always be far away from danger). And dont underestimate a 6atribute EoE it stil does massif dmg in big groups and will kill run-away's that took only a few DWG's, but keep in mind that it can also damage the team when some guys die. And use summon spirit to move the spirits in range, out of danger and to heal shelter and union when they lose a lot of health quickly (so that you need to use more then 3 spirits in ST recharge). i would sugest this ST build over the posted one. i tested both and really prefer this one 20:02, July 24, 2010 (UTC) :A. using summon to heal the spirits uses more energy than just recasting them. (spam mainly shelter, thats important during large spikes, can maintain it indefinately. just keep recasting befor it dies - sometimes this can happen in 2 seconds or less - so you MUST keep recasting shelter ABOVE all, or the monks = dead. union is just at the start of battle and after it settled down a bit to take some burden off the monks. :B. Signet of Creation interferes with spamming shelter when required because you gotta cast it often. shelter down at bad time = fail. :C. no condition removal for the imba, forcing you to work ALOT harder than you need to in foundry. sometimes this can lead to fail if blind isnt removed. :D. EoE is ok, but it really doesnt add that much if you have experienced spikers. really not needed with 4 dwg. :E. winter should not be near the battle, the other spirits you can cast near the battle. they very rarely get targetted, and you just recast them. thats what soul twisting is for. summoning = waste of energy. :F. also, there are no issues with using LBsig and being in earshot as you suggest. just dont stand in the AoE. ;o :Gesun Dheit 20:56, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Suggestion ST seems pretty useless when the imba is kept clean. For instance ST is only useful in city due to the energy that the imba loses. I thought about kicking the ST and bringing a Peace and Harmony, or some sort of good hex/condition removal monk. / Peace and Harmony. Also thought about replacing EoE with lightbringer signet or possibly patient spirit. 12 Wildness Survival, 12 Divine Favor :its a possibility. theres a few things that could replace the st i think, just wish i had more time to play recently. been busy past 2 weeks. few skills on that bar tho i'd have to disagree with, but make ua/hb/pah bars, or you keeping theother monks the same? and test it post all 3 bars with results. Gesun Dheit 12:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC) dwg + equipment Whats the point in suggestiong that the DwG's should take various weaponsets when most of the time, or atleat the time in combat hold the item spell? sometimes you get unlucky with a mesmer or two and you have down time between DwG so you need some weps for that. Also they are useful between casts.-- 13:12, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :just for knowledge. it's information, unless youd prefer to bring misinformed people to doa. every little bit helps. plus wep/shield sets help to hide you energy from the enemy. Gesun Dheit 12:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC) vs. titan shield? Vs demons yes but +10al vs titans?? where from??? :my badm that should be vs earth lol, ill fix that. lots of late night copy/pasting. Gesun Dheit 12:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC) wouldnt it be +10vs cold as its frostway? Sthpaw 14:12, August 19, 2010 (UTC) :You would always want a +10 vs demons for DoA, everything in there is classified as a Demon and would have +10 armor vs it regardless if they were using phys or elem. So a +10/cold is good for all elem damage from winter but not help at all vs the phys. JackdoesSCs 08:18, August 20, 2010 (UTC) ST rit Superior communing and superior spawning please (or at least armor swap). Flesh of my flesh instead of mend body and soul (logical since ST is out of combat usually). If imba is standing in eruptions or right up close to the roller beetles then MBAS won't help anyway. --Suxon my Kurdick 16:51, August 10, 2010 (UTC) :i haven't found a use for superior comm/spawning. all it does is give you spirits about another 30 health which does nothing for union, and shelter thats like half a hit on it. Gesun Dheit 12:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Go Away Theoryonly-crafters What kind of idiot tried to put build in well for deletion ? It is stable independent build which provide good pressure on mobs and defence for exp players in Hard Mode. It is also used now by overwhelming amount of players and guilds for their runs. So switch on your Guild Wars.exe (if you have it, Mr Theoryonly-crafter) and try to use this build in game before placing it in well. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 94.198.111.92 (talk • ) 06:10, August 17, 2010 (UTC). :PvX:SIGN. [[User:Juze|'Ju']]ze 09:10, August 17, 2010 (UTC) Nicly and aesthetically I see some ppl learnt my way of making builds on pvx like: [[] . Yes, it looks much better when you have icon and description of skill in same place. I see my style is widspreaded and I'm happy cause of that :) --God Kamil 11:59, August 27, 2010 (UTC) :actually it looks like shit and you're not supposed to do that--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 21:23, August 28, 2010 (UTC) ::lol, maybe it looks like shit (but it is only your opinion), but this time i didn't do that :P --God Kamil 08:27, August 29, 2010 (UTC) ::: to Relyk - i made it this time for more colorful and informative look, and if you dont like it so offer your own variant (instead of calling shit another ppls work) or fuck out from this page --Time_Buster Aug. 29, 2010 09:13 (UTC) ::::I agree with Time Buster. Idk why you think this is shit, imo it looks very nice, and i thought it is useful for everyone. --God Kamil 16:07, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::Just wanted to sound off on this :D hehe. you know, i prefer the text descriptions instead of icons. icons are kinda of redundant, since they are in the skill bars. also, it adds ALOT of pictures to the download, slowing down page load. so i tried to limit the icons to the skills near the bottom. well, at least someone did some editting cuz i was sick of doing it all. ;p Gesun Dheit 17:58, September 21, 2010 (UTC) PUGableness This build is just unpugable :/ I tried for many times but no one was looking for team and no one wanted to join me. I think this is similar to caster spike that only good team made in alliance can do it. Ppl generally prefer glaiveway in nm rather than frostway. --God Kamil 12:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC) :Very pug friendly :: Agreed I pug this everyday-- 23:07, September 4, 2010 (UTC) :::You just going at the wrong time, Kamil. Try to find party when americans or germans are playing. Exp ppl prefers Frostway HM (2-3 runs for armbr) instead of Glaiveway NM (3-5). --Time_Buster 04:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yea, maybe I was LF in wrong time because I couldn't find anyone, but I tried in other times and I did it twice :P works nicely --God Kamil 08:32, September 25, 2010 (UTC) Winter = useless. Anybody who have went and done this with an ST that plays with only beast mastery and no winter, will see that this works, just as good as with winter, or in fact, even better. I do not see why winter is even added in that build, was it to fill the space or something? Winter is useless, and every time I don't bring it in the build it proves to everybody it indeed, is useless. This build can also be done without even the ST, the ST isn't even needed to use this build in HM. You can just go x4 DwG + Panic + IMBA + HB/UA. It's faster, and works just as good. You might ask yourself why not bring an ST, well if you do, you're not experienced in DoASC at all. DwG's bring mantra of earth because it's the only serious fatal elemental damage they will meet, so bringing winter is like said, many times, useless. -- 19:54, March 4, 2011 (UTC) Winters used to help trigger mantra of frost, I wasnt sure if you knew that or not, your post is a bit misleading. More importantly though, you're probably right, it should possible to do the run without an ST, I haven't personally tried it myself, but no reason why it shouldnt work if you've got an imbagon. However, the point you seem to be missing is that this build is designed to be used in a random group, its made so that it has minimal chance of wiping so that even the least experienced of players can hopefully try it. Also, if you're REALLY experiences in DoA as your post implies, i dont see why you're using this at all, would it not be much better for you to do trenchway? 00:32, April 23, 2011 (UTC)